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#1
VirlomiEntreri

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So, I guess this one ought to get started up again.

My guild finally killed Elegon on heroic, moving us to US107 and world 330ish. Yay! Now to work on Spirit Kings.

Anyways. So, my main character information is in my signature. Folks are more than welcome to ask me about WoW here, in PMs, etc. By no means am I the ultimate wiki for the game, but I know a fair good bit.

Not that I'm trying to be one of the mods or anything, but please try and keep this about the retail game. I'm pretty sure the mods aren't too eager to have people talk about pirating games and music and movies and that sort of jazz, and I'd be willing to bet talk about private servers falls in the same sort of category.

 

Edit: If you want, post your Real ID or PM it to me and I'll post it here in the first thread. Maybe let me know what faction you play primarily to give folks an idea of who they'll probably be able to team up with most likely.

 

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VirlomiEntreri, Horde main; some Alliance alts- Ahrendel#1112

Brutter, Horde- Scales#1274 Brutter#1858

Ashling, Horde- Ashling#1776

Fail_Fish, Horde- PuppyXero#1302

Tarnagh, Horde- Tarnagh#1352

Flintlocke, ???- Hellparsley#1437

BeyondChaos, ???- Dirtnap#1316

Carrion, Horde- Allowyn#1380

Boa, Horde- lIlIlIIllIll#1749 (May I just take a moment to say... fuck you Boa?)

Presea, Horde- Presea#1340

LordVic, Horde- LordVic#2626
Kris, ???- Krustation#2435


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#2
DittoxD

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Very nice, my guild is currently working on normal Garalon and Heroic Garajal (should have the latter kill this week, and we've wasted a lot of time on him).

#3
Azraelle

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My Horde guild sucks. They all left to play Guild Wars 2.

For the first time ever I created an Alliance toon (well not first time ever, just first time to honestly give a damn about leveling it). A Dwarf Paladin, currently level 16. After playing for about three years, I took my first steps into IronForge. I felt an admission was in honor.

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#4
VirlomiEntreri

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Very nice, my guild is currently working on normal Garalon and Heroic Garajal (should have the latter kill this week, and we've wasted a lot of time on him).


Garajal has a really tight enrage right now, along with some pretty high damage if tanks don't us cooldowns or get externals to mitigate the Voodoo Doll damage. If you have a pally, make them spec into the double Hand of Protection talent (this is bad cause I can't recall the name of it, and I main as a prot pally!). Since the boss focuses on the tank, immunity won't make him ignore the tank. That virtually negates some Voodoo Doll damage. Get your ret, holy, and/or prot pally to grab it. Also, if it's a prot pally, he can Divine Shield himself on his Voodoo Doll turn. Other than that, make sure your DPS are burning those small adds down. Later in the fight, you can possibly sacrifice one of the tanks (let the DPS worry about only the small adds inside the spirit realm, and not the two big ones they normally kill). This lets your DPS clear more small adds, making for a cleaner kill/burn phase. Which if you sacrifice a tank, it definitely has to go down.

Garalon... is... fun. How are you doing him currently (10, 25? Group composition?)

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#5
DittoxD

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Yeah we're getting him down to 5-10% before he enrages so we just have to find the smallest tweaks for it. No one's ever mentioned possibly sacrificing a tank... is it really worth losing the tank's dps for 20% of the fight though? We are 5-healing it because 4 is "too hard". We're a 25-man guild and our comp is slightly melee heavy.

#6
neodrakan

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so this is the first expansion where i'm not "Hardcore" raiding anymore

as in i'm perfectly happy doing LFR and clearing MV once a week with my guild.This is also the first expansion where i'm tanking with my paladin and not my warrior or DK.

Well,with HoF coming out,school has decided to kick it into high gear and it won't allow me to play as much,so i figure i'd try out Retribution for the first time since I started playing way back in Vanilla

in ilvl 465 gear,Hit and Expertise capped,i'm pulling about 40-50k in LFR with all of the necessary buffs,but it drops so dramatically in regular guild heroics,averaging around 30k

Any paladins care to give Retribution tips?


Maybe a different rotation than what icy-veins suggest? or something I could possibly do

#7
VirlomiEntreri

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Keep in mind the last tank to go in isn't going to be taking a lot of damage, thus... no vengeance really. The best they'll get is... what? 30% of current tanks current vengeance at the time of a taunt? So yeah, ignoring the last three big adds (well, 2 for the DPS that go down) means they kill more of the shadowbolting mobs, which relieves heals a little bit. Whether that'll help you or not, who knows. If you're losing people to overwhelming shadowbolts from the small minions, then it's more than likely very worth while sacrificing the last tank before an enrage to keep actual DPS alive.

From what I understand, 4 healing is the way to go for 25mans. Rotate an elemental shaman or boomkin to go down below if you have to for the assignment of HEALING the people who go down; we do that with our elemental in 10man here.

Speaking of the tanks. Make sure they one not being focused taunts the boss every 18-20 seconds to maintain their baseline vengeance throughout the fight.

so this is the first expansion where i'm not "Hardcore" raiding anymore

as in i'm perfectly happy doing LFR and clearing MV once a week with my guild.This is also the first expansion where i'm tanking with my paladin and not my warrior or DK.

Well,with HoF coming out,school has decided to kick it into high gear and it won't allow me to play as much,so i figure i'd try out Retribution for the first time since I started playing way back in Vanilla

in ilvl 465 gear,Hit and Expertise capped,i'm pulling about 40-50k in LFR with all of the necessary buffs,but it drops so dramatically in regular guild heroics,averaging around 30k

Any paladins care to give Retribution tips?


Maybe a different rotation than what icy-veins suggest? or something I could possibly do


I'm not a real hardcore ret, so... get your salt shaker out cause you'll need a few grains I'm sure.

Get yourself the add-on called 'CLCRet.' That'll basically be your "what button next," and it's pretty reliable for DPS. If you got your hit to 7.5% and exp to 7.5%, you're good on that. Get your strength potions for prepotting and potting during the fights, get your strength flasks and foods.

Go visit a dummy, and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE the CLCRet rotation. Don't forget your Guardian of Ancient Kings, trinkets, potion, and cooldowns for burst. Best thing to do is use GoAK first, and at 20 seconds pop trinket(s), cooldowns, and the potion. This'll maximize the burst.

Talents wise, most are personal choice. For ret I like a 3-1-1-1-3-3 build. The 75 and 90 talents are probably the most crucial. Holy Avenger gives a cooldown for burst that's reliable every 2 minutes; it's basically the old Zealotry. But it doesn't line up with Avenging Wrath anymore, so that kind of hurts. Divine Purpose is like it has been, sort of, in the past, except now it's off of Holy Power finishers instead of most of our rotation attacks. It's RNG, and I've had it proc up to 10 times in a row. I've also had it give me only 1-3 procs a minute. It's generally steady and reliable in that it'll average out well enough over the course of a fight. If you need burst, though, HA's the way to go. If it's okay to have a constant DPS, then DP works better from what I understand.

I have no idea about the level 90 talent. I've gone Execution Sentence for single target DPS. Holy Prism and Light's Hammer can do some interesting things, though. HP can do AoE healing + single target damage (target mob), or AoE dps + self (or ally target) healing (target self/ally). Light's Hammer does something similar to Holy Prism. It's like Consecration (a bit bigger, actually), and does healing to everyone in it AND damage to every enemy in it. Personally, I'd take Light's Hammer or Execution sentence. Ret rotation is pretty tight in its GCD usage, so squeezing in 3 Holy Prism's every minute can be rough. Getting in 1 LH or ES every minute is more feasible (and can more easily line up with cooldowns).

If you want some REAL ret advice, I'd suggest you go to the World of Warcraft Paladin class forums, and call for Lobster. He's usually a pretty helpful, and very good, ret pally.


Your DPS will go down in heroic dungeons due to not all buffs being present most likely. As for normal/heroic raids, I don't know. How's the tanks doing with bosses? Are they moving like crazy? If you can give me a World of Logs parse, I can try to pick it clean. Or you can put it in a post that you make for Lobster, and he probably can do a better job of seeing where you're going wrong (if you are).


Also, Icy Veins is a joke.

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#8
neodrakan

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Also, Icy Veins is a joke.


I feel that it gives all of the necessary information as a quick reference guide.It's easy to read for anyone of any level of play

But again,I don't have the time to really theorycraft anymore,so icy-veins and noxxic are the only reference sites i'm using nowadays.

#9
VirlomiEntreri

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I feel that it gives all of the necessary information as a quick reference guide.It's easy to read for anyone of any level of play

But again,I don't have the time to really theorycraft anymore,so icy-veins and noxxic are the only reference sites i'm using nowadays.


For a lot of classes/specs, it gives horribly inaccurate stat weights, gearing plans, etc. For raids, it can cover key aspects, and give a general idea for what your group needs to do. Just... don't intrinsically trust it to give 100% accurate information.

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#10
Jus

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I just came in here to say {◕ ◡ ◕}

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#11
VirlomiEntreri

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I just came in here to say {◕ ◡ ◕}


Be happy! {◕ ◡ ◕}

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#12
Ashling

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Even playing WoW for as long as I have, it still surprises me how deep people look into their classes and all the bloody number crunching.
I'm sure I'm not alone but I still play the way I have since Vanilla, if something is off cooldown and it'll do damage to what we're fighting, I hit it.
I've level up like this, I do dungeons like this, I raid like this. No one has complained yet that I'm not pulling my weight. :D

Also, they really need to make Corpse Explosion like it used to be. I miss exploding my buddies when they die near me. :)
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#13
VirlomiEntreri

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Some people just like crunching the numbers, such as Theck for prot pallies. I'm not one of those people, but I do follow and (try) to keep up with what they post. For people who raid casually, you can just ignore most things as long as you have a basic understanding of, "Dur, I need hit at 7.5%, balance for more parry than dodge, and stack mastery!" along with the whole "don't stand in stupid shit!" thing. For people pushing for world top kills, you kind of need to do whatever you can to be the best you can be. Or you'll not be there for long.

As for 'if something is off cooldown and it'll do damage.' Sure, works. Is it optimal? Probably not. But it works, and you can get by on it for the level of play and enjoyment you get out of it. For someone like me, though? Nah. I have to hold my Shield of the Righteous until a big hit is coming so I mitigate the most damage possible, I gotta keep my Sacred Shield up 100% for a fight. Sure, I can skimp and do SotR whenever I want and live, but that just hurts the healers when they see me dip to 40% instead of the 65% I would've been at with good timing. And since I am in a group pushing realm firsts, and trying to maintain a US 150 standing, that's what I've gotta do.

We all play how we like. ;)

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#14
Ashling

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I was chatting to a mate in my guild about this the other day. He's all into the number crunching and being the best damn shadow priest he can be while gearing up to be the best damn holy priest.. he'll probably never seriously raid, 'cept for LFR, 'cause our guild isn't built like that but he gets a real kick out of it.
He was almost as baffled my "eh, it works" attitude as I was by his "gotta do this 'cause this'll make this work better" attitude. lol :D
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#15
Azraelle

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At some point, severe number crunching makes the game less fun for me. I'm in the "if it's available, press it" camp, though I do have some strategy for fast killing, such as "do X before Y, so it puts Z effect on as soon as possible." That and, since my guild is never there anymore, I really don't run dungeons anyway so it rarely matters. Only when I get swarmed do I ever really panic.

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#16
Readout

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I don't tend to number crunch much. The most I do is google a rough rotation when I come back after a while to see what's changed (like when I returned to Panda last month from having not played for almost a year).

One of my friends get crazy intense about this stuff though, which is why I'm always scared to play with him when he's got Recount turned on...

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#17
Ozone55

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Does anyone play on private servers? Just curious, since I haven't played retail for the better part of 4 yrs.
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#18
VirlomiEntreri

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Does anyone play on private servers? Just curious, since I haven't played retail for the better part of 4 yrs.


No. And, respectfully, GTFO.

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#19
DittoxD

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I don't excessively crunch numbers but I do keep in mind stat priorities, pros/cons of each spec (for dps on different style fights), and I will reforge just to get those few extra points :). I don't call other people out on poor dps though, I just try to do better than myself.

#20
VirlomiEntreri

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I don't call other people out on poor dps though, I just try to do better than myself.


I always shake my head when there's a DPS who is getting out DPSed by a healer. Had that happen last night in Gate of the Setting Sun. Spriest doing like 9k dps (how?!?!) and the holy pally doing 17k dps.

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