518 replies to this topic

[Flynhghr2001]

I have been following the comic since 2005, and I created an account just to comment on the ending.

I read your reasoning behind the ending.  While I agree that a "happy ever after" ending might not fit CAD, having Ethan lose everything he loves doesnt seem right either.

If this was April, I'd swear this was a joke.

[Fox]

I've enjoyed Ctrl-Alt-Del for I'd guess about 7 years now. It's ingrained itself into my morning routine every Mon/Wed/Fri. As I was reading this new story line I even made the comment to my wife that it had started to get really dark all of a sudden. I never would have guess it would end in the manner it had though. I read your post, like many others I suspect, looking for answers for such a shocking turn of events. I respect the desire to be as creative as possible and not be limited in that creativity. What confuses me is what has mostly been created and positioned as a humorous comic should end on on such a dark cliffhanger?

I hope your new direction works out for you. I personally never enjoyed the four player comics, but it sounds like you have a plan for that. Good luck with your future endeavor.

[The Infraggable Tony-Man]

FisherKing, on 24 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

Ok, I cannot claim to have been here for the entire time, just a few years, but it was enough. That being said, cheers mate! Ten long years of bringing a comic like this to life is something to be proud of no matter what anyone says. I know I couldn't have done it and a lot of other web comics couldn't either.

Next thing I want to say is that if you're ever in my area (Seaside and the like) and if the place ever gets rebuilt, the first round of drinks is on me. Hell, make it two considering the garbage you've had to deal with today and yesterday.

I think you succeeded with this comic. I say that not because I liked it (I did) but because you pissed off so many people with it. The only reason people would get this upset and throw a temper-tantrum is because they are emotionally invested in the comic. They are upset because it feels like they lost a loved one and we did.

But I think everyone is forgetting something important.

This might be a 'game over' but there is more on the screen than those two words.

'Quit?'
'Continue?'<

I don't like to think of it as Game Over.  I like to think of it as more like Congratulations!  You've unlocked the Second Quest!

[OverlordOfTrees]

Guys, If Ethan really died here, and you are all really upset about it, look at the beginning. Lets see, arrows to the back, arrows to the front, being choked by an ogre, head chopped off, stabbed... Ethan has died enough already, so why are we upset that he died again?

[Bluessoul]

I'm another long time lurker and first time poster. Found the comic way back during the ninja attacks during high school. I stayed during the transition from a gag comic to a serious comic. I stayed for the amazing story...and I'm planning to stay now. Want to know my reason? He had the decency to give me an ending. Look at other webcomics with stories (applegeeks, megatokyo etc.) that instead of ending when the authors became dissatisfied/ didn't have enough time/ moved on to other projects now either update once a blue moon or even worse, just stop mid arc. Am I worried about the reboot? Yes. Am I worried about the players being the gag/ main characters? No, I'm scared ****less (at least in their current form). Am I willing to stay JUST for the story? Yup. The fact that I had to wait a couple days to post because I wanted to evaluate without my attachments to the characters getting in the way says it all.

That being said, I'm not even gonna talk about the ending....still kinda in a state of shock about what happened.

Tim, as a die-hard fan of CAD for the past 8-9 years, all I really ask (and this is just a selfish request) is that you find some way to preserve what we found interesting/ awesome about the original characters- especially the personalities and gaming relationship between Ethan and Lilah- in the upcoming reboot. If not, give me the quality story that has kept me coming back over the years, and I'll keep coming.

FisherKing, on 24 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

But I think everyone is forgetting something important.

This might be a 'game over' but there is more on the screen than those two words.

'Quit?'
'Continue?'<

I'll be spamming the continue button. As long as the story stays solid you can take my damn quarters.

[Demonbooker]

"We were already fucked. Now all this suffering will finally be over."

After reading your news posts about why you are doing the reboot, this line seems a bit more poetic to me.

I will miss the Ethan and Lilah of yesterday, but you do good work, so I'm looking forward to seeing your new universe.

[itsid]

Burning batsu, on 24 November 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

One extra comment from what I've said earlier - to those of you who keep referring to the ninja and arrow gags, they were just that - gags.  They were not really part of the continuity as such, or I guess more appropriately they were before the time where Tim started making more solid storylines and plot arcs
......

If you're referring to my post, let me quickly set things straight:;
I KNOW!
That being said, an explanation of why I referred to said random arrow.
If an arrow hit Ethan after his return to the past (past from today, not only the future he was trapped in),
it implied two things first he's way back in time having to live all his "evolved" life again which we can follow by rereading the comic
over and over again...
it also left a door open for Tim to pick up the storyline again (say in another ten years from now) and create just a different timeline
and it implied a fresh start, since I cannot imagine anything less connected to the ongoing storylines than said arrow.
A melon with a face maybe?

I myself like the idea of our known Ethan being alive, having the chance to have kids with Lilah, I want Lucas and Zeke to have a Nephew... ordinary things like that.
I liked the way the four evolved -like most of us- and I feel pitty for them (for comic characters... don't tell my wife!)
That's why I thought it'd been a good idea to have that "Eureka way" of creating an endless loop for the storyline.
Starting over at the beginning of the strip with something that we know is long gone, perhaps a random arrow, perhaps a melon,
something before Ethan had a soul worth mentioning....

There's none, no time loop, no arrow, no open door...

'sid

ps never liked the players... maybe I will after they're rebooted properly

[NightTrain]

Hey Tim, your ending comic has been probably one of your best individual comics, but if you go the drama route again anytime in the future, you should try to work a bit more on your word economy.  Less is more sometimes.

http://imgur.com/ey5Fp

Just taking the narration boxes out of the final few panels make them flow a lot better and be a bit more poignant, since dramatic actions often work better in media without an abundance of dialogue or monologue around them.  It's a visual medium, let the images speak for themselves more.

[XraySteve]

Tim, now that you're armed with more knowledge of your craft, are you going to release any 'special editions' of the older comics?  Add some CGI Dewbacks, more 'hustle and bustle' to your cities, enhance some of the explosions maybe?

[stellar451]

I dunno man, i think this is a huge mistake. If it was taking too long to tell storylines, either cut down the story - or put it in a graphic online/kindle e-nnovel or something. That way you can preserve artistic storyline/creativity and even make money on it for ppl that want to see the which-way adventures or something like this last storyline. I can understand the same ol sane ol in doing these strips, but its a big chance chucking the baby out with the bathwater to see it ppl will follow the adventures of duck, toy boat, and sponge....

[RockNRoll]

Been reading since the first year, so obviously I love the strip and have defended it pretty ruthlessly from the Penny Arcade fans. That said, you mention seeing Ethan and Lucas (and Lilah?) again, but not exactly as we know them. What does that really mean? Ethan has grown up so much in the last 10 years that there really is no exact version of him. Sure, he's still an idiot, but now he is married, owns a business, doesn't get into quite as much trouble, and helps manage a house instead of an apartment. This version of these characters were what kept bringing me back. They were loveable, and actually they were pretty realistic (minus Zeke of course). And your formula worked (at least for me). Big story line, and then a month or so of independent game strips, either with the other characters or a stand alone strip where Ethan and company talk about some new release.

And despite the fact that you apparently pulled an Infinite Crisis/New 52 style reboot, I'll give this new formula another try. If anything in the hopes of seeing the family again. Btw, what's to come of Winter-een-mas? I loved that whole thing and always got excited come January waiting to see what this year would bring

[Detlik]

As many, I have created my account just to comment on this strip. And I dont know what to say. I have been following this comic for quite a while now. I had many laughs thanks to it, and even few worries for my favorite characters. But now...I feel little emptiness inside. Dont misunderstand me, the ending WAS appropriate. Ethan was reckless, often toyed with his life, so he just got what was coming for him. Even though he was reckless "idiot", he didnt deserve this. He did what was best, saving his friends and his love, but even though it was his fault...to lose everything like this...its just little too harsh. But on other hand, I guess life just isnt fair.

I will still continue reading one of my favorite webcomics..but I am afraid it just wont be the same.

[Piestein]

Tim, I got no idea if you're going to read this or not. But I hope you do.

First, this was a good idea. Your comic has become so much better in the last two years. At the time, this is the best online comic I follow and I follow quite a lot of them - it has characters, comedy and drama, pace, you clearly have a story to tell and you know where you're going, you're putting massive efforts in this one and you have the mental and creative capacities for this.

However, don't ever do this again. Or at least, do it better. Let me tell you the big issue with the ending right now: it's open for Ethan and that is great. It's dark and that is awesome. I love your dark work. The last panel was awesome. You're obviously a person who is capable of feeling intensely and darkness is the way you can put these conflicting feelings in ink. And you have an awesome sense of humor that seems not to falter for the most part.

But what about Lilah? Lucas? Zeke? They all flew out of the window. Ethan's life got sorted and then sort of fucked (and we are not sure precisely how it got fucked, so we can decide that it really didn't get fucked). But the last panel that included Lucas was this. His last words were: "Well... Any of our old stuff that survived the apartment fire would probably be somewhere in the basement."

Lilah dies in an alternative universe, which is greatly unsatisfying too, ("Hindenburg would probably be far more accurate in your case."), but at least she gets to be an object of the story. It would have been satisfying to see her as a subject in the last story, instead of being reduced to the desire of Ethan and the projection of his ego ("I made promises I can't keep"); but at least she gets screen time. Lucas doesn't even get to be an object. We don't even know if he died or not.

Zeke got some screen time in the alternative universe (he also gets a joke as a last line in the normal one), but doesn't really act in this one either. Kills people years ago, organizes an army... But where is he now? He remains an object, not a subject, even in the alternative universe.

And that's that. We got some backstory in the alternative universe - still not our universe, by the way, but we didn't even see the main characters.

That is why people are unhappy. Anyway, I believe you have the talent and this is your first reboot. If I'm saying these things, it's to point out your mistakes, not to trample on your storyline. I loved it. I just think next time, you should remember that you don't have just one Main Character.

[HolyDiver005]

Piestein, on 24 November 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Tim, I got no idea if you're going to read this or not. But I hope you do.

First, this was a good idea. Your comic has become so much better in the last two years. At the time, this is the best online comic I follow and I follow quite a lot of them - it has characters, comedy and drama, pace, you clearly have a story to tell and you know where you're going, you're putting massive efforts in this one and you have the mental and creative capacities for this.

However, don't ever do this again. Or at least, do it better. Let me tell you the big issue with the ending right now: it's open for Ethan and that is great. It's dark and that is awesome. I love your dark work. The last panel was awesome. You're obviously a person who is capable of feeling intensely and darkness is the way you can put these conflicting feelings in ink. And you have an awesome sense of humor that seems not to falter for the most part.

But what about Lilah? Lucas? Zeke? They all flew out of the window. Ethan's life got sorted and then sort of fucked (and we are not sure precisely how it got fucked, so we can decide that it really didn't get fucked). But the last panel that included Lucas was this. His last words were: "Well... Any of our old stuff that survived the apartment fire would probably be somewhere in the basement."

Lilah dies in an alternative universe, which is greatly unsatisfying too, ("Hindenburg would probably be far more accurate in your case."), but at least she gets to be an object of the story. It would have been satisfying to see her as a subject in the last story, instead of being reduced to the desire of Ethan and the projection of his ego ("I made promises I can't keep"); but at least she gets screen time. Lucas doesn't even get to be an object. We don't even know if he died or not.

Zeke got some screen time in the alternative universe (he also gets a joke as a last line in the normal one), but doesn't really act in this one either. Kills people years ago, organizes an army... But where is he now? He remains an object, not a subject, even in the alternative universe.

And that's that. We got some backstory in the alternative universe - still not our universe, by the way, but we didn't even see the main characters.

That is why people are unhappy. Anyway, I believe you have the talent and this is your first reboot. If I'm saying these things, it's to point out your mistakes, not to trample on your storyline. I loved it. I just think next time, you should remember that you don't have just one Main Character.

This. 100%.

[BelLion]

NightTrain, on 24 November 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Hey Tim, your ending comic has been probably one of your best individual comics, but if you go the drama route again anytime in the future, you should try to work a bit more on your word economy.  Less is more sometimes.

http://imgur.com/ey5Fp

Just taking the narration boxes out of the final few panels make them flow a lot better and be a bit more poignant, since dramatic actions often work better in media without an abundance of dialogue or monologue around them.  It's a visual medium, let the images speak for themselves more.

Dunno really.
It's not bad without the text, and there might be a bit too much of them.
But without any of those it seems too empty as well.

And I'd certainly keep the "the end" one.

[llama]

Like many others on this thread, I have made an account solely so that I could respond to yesterday's comic. I've only been reading CAD for two years or so, but I've fallen in love with Ethan, Lucas, Lilah and the rest. I'm crying a bit right now.
Still, the way Tim ended the comic was amazing, and I feel as though few things could be done to make it more heartfelt.
I'm still hoping that he'll spend a comic or two more on a short epilogue  to wrap up loose ends (Ted, and Lucas' girlfriend especially), but I'm also looking forward to seeing more of the players. I hope that they'll be more fleshed out in the new CAD, and that we can fall in love with them just as we've fallen in love with the main cast. I want to see our main cast again, but the new "Ctrl+Shift+Esc" sounds like it will be a great read.
I'm still a bit angry at Tim for ending the comic as we know it, but hey, it's his choice, and I can understand why he might want to end it. To all those who refuse to give the new incarnation of CAD a chance, stop being stubborn and try it out for a month or so. Unless the new comic fails miserably, I will be staying with CAD.

[Glenn]

I feel that my first post in the (rebooted?) forum should be in this topic.

@Tim:
Thank you so very much for the past years. I am not here to tell you I enjoyed every bit of it. Your writing has so much diversity, I don't think anyone can like it all.

It just was.

Seems like forever ago when I started reading, and following your gaming reviews. I never really got into the old forum, but I did manage to join in on a few CAD-related gaming events during those years. Those gave me an impression of the kind of person (I think) you aim to be, and made me more invested in following your progress. Unfortunately, living in Europe, it was never possible for me to join in on any of your RL events, I would have most likely enjoyed them.
It was the community, and those types of events that confirmed for me, CAD is a proper source for gaming culture (and sometimes even more serious) commentary.
__________

Now that we have seen the way you decided to end this story, and looking back at the last few arcs, I have to say we could have seen it coming.
You mentioned that you felt constricted by the way you built up the characters and story thus far, pushing them in a certain serious (more realistic?) direction. In that light the last few arcs, trying to "tie up loose ends" (i.e. Ted), were probably already pushing the limit. Even more so for these final chapters. If you would have continued the story this way, I think it would have been a very awkward change of pace.
I didn't really mind this ending, but I didnt understand why until someone mentioned this a few pages ago in this topic:
The choose-your-own-adventure style (CYOA) you adopted a while ago!

I can only say these final comic arcs (can I say say 'books'? You already seem to be thinking in that direction) feel like you were playing your own personal CYOA. I believe you did really try to wrap up the story as a whole, but along the line you made some choices that you couldn't go back on. You have shown your readers first hand, that in these types of stories sometimes you just hit a brick wall, there is no what now? And we should accept that!
Starting anew and trying to create a refined story is part of the charm of fiction, and I wish you all the luck in the world trying to outdo yourself!
__________

As for the future (disclaimer: please don't hate):
One-shots: I think this is a great idea. It lets you keep focus on current events, without breaking up storylines all the time. Even more so it takes away the need for all the back-checking/fact-checking to make sure there are no inconsistencies.
There will most likely still be relatable characters (you have more than shown us you can create those), but they don't have to/get to be flawless
Stories (Books): Ethan-Lucas-Lilah-world is ready for this. I am ready for this. WE are ready for this!
All you have to do is knock our socks off! (We also need to remember to put on socks...)
Choose-your-own-adventure: I hope you decide to finish & create more of these in time.
Winter-een-mas: one of the first things I am really looking forward to is how you are going to approach this subject next year. Even though it was part of the ongoing story, it definitely grew into a life of its own.
Now that I think of it, wasn't this years' a short story? That one alone proves that going the story"book" direction is one you can pull off, while still keeping the CAD-charm.
No doubt about it!

This turned out way bigger than I intended, but I am posting it anyway.

[Tim]

I remember talking with friends when The Sopranos ended... it was a very polarizing finale. I was one of the ones that loved that ending. And this ending is very similar to that one in a way (though I feel like I gave way more definitive closure than that one). But some people simply like to be told what happens to the characters they're invested in, and I understand that. This is a love it or hate type of ending.

I didn't forget that Lucas and Lilah were characters in this comic strip when I decided to end the comic this way. In fact I had a couple of drafts of this storyline in which Ethan pushed the button, and then I showed Lucas and Lilah crying, putting up 'missing' posters with Ethan's face on it, and eventually some sort of image years down the road where they're finally accepting that he's gone.

I had this draft, and every time I looked at it, I felt like everything after the button press, the additional "closure" so to speak, was stuff that could be very easily extrapolated based on everything leading up to it, without necessarily needing to see it happen. I made it very clear that it was entirely Ethan that was the catalyst for getting Embla back up and running, and setting those events in motion. So while the future could be saved by him going back and choosing not to do that... the same effect is achieved by him simply not being there to do it either. So the ultimate goal of creating a timeline where everyone is safe is still accomplished by his sacrifice in the end.

With the additional scenes at the end, it felt to me like the emotional punch, the big finish, the big drama moment was the button push... and adding more after that sort of detracted from that moment. And it's a sad and depressing finale, but there is some bravery in there... some selflessness on Ethan's part. And I felt like having that moment, but then going on to show the grief that follows, sort of dampened that moment of ultimate sacrifice by having too much sadness on the page.

All I can do is try to explain the thought process behind the decisions I made here. I like the ending that I chose, and it was not an ending I chose without a lot of consideration of alternatives. Some people like it. Some people don't like it. I accept that. I appreciate that everyone has taken the time to come here and express their thoughts on it, good or bad, and while I can't respond to everyone here, I am making an effort to read all the posts.

Going forward, I understand that there is only so much that saying can do to assuage the fears of certain readers that the Ethan, Lucas and Lilah they've known are gone for good. I can promise that that isn't the case until I'm blue in the face, but for some people it just won't be okay until I've had the opportunity to show them.

I love these characters. They've been a major part of my life for ten years. I'm not simply throwing them away. I want to give them a new, better life.

This finale was mostly about Ethan because, when I look at the comic as a whole, he had become THE main character. Lucas, Lilah, Zeke... they were family, but there was no comic without Ethan.

I want a comic where they're all equally as important and engaging, and that means Lucas and Lilah can't start out solely as foils for Ethan. I want a comic where Lucas and Lilah are developed enough that they can have their own, interesting stories outside of whatever Ethan is doing. I want a comic in a setting that not only supports the humor, but can also believably carry drama and romance and action without it seeming forced or out of place like it kind of does now.

I get to do all of that in the new setting and more. Some of you will be here for it, and I'm excited to tell those stories for you. I'm excited that we get to have new adventures, and even revisit old like Ethan and Lilah meeting for the first time, but in a whole new way.

Some of you have decided this Ethan and Lucas and Lilah are the only ones for you, and this is where you'll stop reading. That's alright as well. I appreciate your support over the years.

[Amesy86]

I've been reading this comic for very nearly 10 years here in the UK and only now created an account to comment. Tim, it has been a genuine pleasure to watch, not only your characters evolve, but you as an artist. When I finished reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series I felt a heart wrenching loss, like you've just found out a group of your friends have died and you are never going to be able to laugh or cry with them again. That is exactly how I feel right now. And I am not ashamed to admit that I have literally shed a tear this evening.

I am very excited to hear that Ethan, Lucas, and Lilah (and hopefully Zeke too) will be getting the full dedicated comic that I feel they deserve. I also cannot wait to see what you are able to do with them without the restrictions you felt with their personalities. I am somewhat anxious to know whether I'll be able to pick this up in the UK.

Tim, I hope you read this and are able to answer that last question. As much as I enjoy the Players cartoons, they were not the reason I come back to the comic twice a month and would truly hate to part ways with CTRL+ALT+DEL just because the pond got in the way of a comic that Im chomping at the bit to subscribe to.

Either way, thank you for 10 years of one of my favourite escapes. And here is hoping for another 10 (at least).

[Tim]

My plan for the comic is specifically this:

A couple months of one-shots. These will be about games, movies, whatever. Pretty much like I do now. Sometimes they'll feature the Players, sometimes random people, sometimes they'll take place in a game, sometimes talking about a game, whatever. Again, very similar to what you get now inbetween storylines.

When I say "the Players will be featured more prominently" I don't mean "They'll be in every strip". You'll just see them a little more, and they'll develop more personality. Because sometimes I just want to do character humor (ie, the funny interactions between two characters you know) without necessarily doing a whole storyline. I will turn the Players into characters that you can actually get to know. They will no longer be incredibly violent ALL the time. Player 4 will continue to be insane though. She's my favorite

However, during the 2-3 months that I'm putting out the one-shots for you, I will also be writing and producing issues of a comic book featuring Ethan and Lucas. Most of these will be comic book length (22-24 pages), though I may do the occasional smaller story in between.

When they're finished, I may make them available in digital/kindle/e-book format, in their entirety for $0.99 or whatever. BUT... you don't have to buy them. Because shortly afterwards, they'll go up on the website for free. One page a day, every day, until the entire book is up (during which I will be taking a much needed 3 week vacation, after having spent 3 months working on one-shots AND a full comic book all at once).

The option to purchase the full book first is just that... an option, for people who don't want to wait while the issue updates for free online, or who want to own a copy that they can take with them. But I want to stress that they will all be made available for free, on the website, just like usual. I'm not putting a payment gate in front of the content, I just figure since the issue will be finished first, why not give people the option.

The other reason is this: I haven't decided exactly how I'm going to write these issues yet. I may do them strictly comic book by myself. I may mix some prose with some comic book panels to do a sort of hybrid novella thing. OR, I may just hire an artist to work on it with me. And if I end up deciding that the work would be better served by an artist better than myself, and I need to hire one, then selling the issues digitally will help offset that.

But again, no matter what, you don't have to buy them that way. You can wait, and receive them via updates on the website.

And that's pretty much how it will go. A few months of one-shots, a month of straight up story. A few months of one-shots, a month of straight up story. Rinse and repeat. Very similar to how it is now, on the surface.